V3 won't turn on unless charger is attached

[biyahero]

I have a V3 which at times seems to behave normally, but then other times it will just suddenly shut down and then it often will not start again unless you hook a charger to it. It is not the battery, as I have tried a new original Motorola battery, plus there was one time I tried a (new) Chinese 3rd party Motorola battery (which actually made the phone work normally for half a day.

I took it to the Memo Express, allegedly the Motorola Service Center in Manila, and they turn out to be a poor excuse for a service center ... claiming all they can do is reflash it, which they tried and it doesn't solve the problem. I could have probably flashed it myself with some MP from here if I could figure out which one to use, so I took it to the Service Center on the assumption they would be able to disassemble it and change parts if that was the problem... but now they claim the Motorola doesn't authorize them to do that.

So I am thinking about taking it apart myself since otherwise it is basically useless paperweight.

Are there any guides or troubleshooting programs to determine what might be the problem with this phone, or to guide one in disassmbly of it?

At the risk of confusing the issue, I have been told that the teen who was using this phone "may" have splashed Coke on it during a athletic event, but wiped out the battery compartment to make sure it was dry. However I believe that if the liquid would have caused any shorting, burning out of components, or the like the phone wouldn't come on at all.

The basic problem seems to be that the phone "thinks" that the battery is dead even when it is not, because when you hook a charger to it, or sometimes when you put a different battery in it also then it will come on and perform normally.

[zedbra]

RAZR disassembly guide HERE (http://www.themotoguide.com/razrdisassembly.php)

if the round sticker under the battery is colored(supposed to be white) then there is water, or in this case soda:) , damage

you could try to drain the battery in the phone first. i know keeping the phone on is an issue, so force it into bootloader mode.... to do this, with the phone off press and hold * and # keys, then press power. keep holding * and # until the s/w and bootloader info is displayed. Now leave the phone sit until the battery completely dies. you will know its dead because the info would have disappeared. now remove the batteery for a while, then put it back in and charge the phone for no less than 24 hrs.
If after this the problem persists then you may try flashing the phone, but it is probably a hardware issue. also try cleaning the terminals lightly with alcohol.

[biyahero]

RAZR disassembly guide HERE (http://www.themotoguide.com/razrdisassembly.php)

if the round sticker under the battery is colored(supposed to be white) then there is water, or in this case soda:) , damage

you could try to drain the battery in the phone first. i know keeping the phone on is an issue, so force it into bootloader mode.... to do this, with the phone off press and hold * and # keys, then press power. keep holding * and # until the s/w and bootloader info is displayed. Now leave the phone sit until the battery completely dies. you will know its dead because the info would have disappeared. now remove the batteery for a while, then put it back in and charge the phone for no less than 24 hrs.
If after this the problem persists then you may try flashing the phone, but it is probably a hardware issue. also try cleaning the terminals lightly with alcohol.

Thanks zedbra! That guide is awesome!

I don't actually physically have the phone at the moment but when I get back to where it is in about a week and a half I can be prepared to work on it.

So I'll get a T5 and T6 and I got the rest of the tools I will need.

If you don't mind I still have a few questions about the procedure. In the Guide "Taking the Razr Apart" there are three of those little red "x"s in a box the usually indicate missing graphics in web pages... perhaps they are nothing I need to see? There are two of them above the statement:

"Unscrew (T5) the screw holding the right hinge in, and push it out." and one more below the statement "Push the left hinge out as well. I use a flathead screwdriver again."

Anything important there (if your copy shows what was there)?

Also that page indicates in the top paragraph:
"There is also a good guide put together by ajay16, its a .pdf file--direct download link here (http://www.themotoguide.com/images/Motorola_v3_Disassembly_Guide.pdf)."

But the "here" part doesn't go anywhere.... would you perhaps know of an updated link to that PDF file?

Finally, about the keypad. It says "Now you see the keypad. If you need to replace that, it is stuck on with an adhesive. I am not going to take it off in this guide, since it won't go back on well, but all you do is get some tweezers or a knife under a corner, and pull it up like you'd pull gum off a shoe."

If I do need to take if off, for example to clean out dried soda perhaps that might be making a bad connection is there a special type of adhesive that I might want to/should get before hand to make it so that it does go back on well?

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

Oh one more thing.... the so-called Motorola Service Center in Manila did try to flash it (or maybe they did but it still doesn't turn on reliably) apparently so I don't know what state I will find it in but I may want to flash it again. If I do are there any MPs that seem to work better than others for the V3? I looked in our library here but unlike the firmwares for the ZN5 that I have become very familiar with, those numbers for the V3 firmwares don't mean anything to me. It was originally a T-Mobile unit which I unlocked and had flashed at the then existing Motorola Service Center in Manila with the current Philippine firmware at the time, and if it comes back to life that is probably where it would be used again.

[zedbra]

yeh, i get the missing pics too. ist ok tho cuz you pretty much get the idea from the rest of the guide. i dont believe it will be necessary to remove the keypad. the most you'll probably want to do is disassemble the bottom portion of the phone. for the keypad, the metal cover should keep the keypad in place if you decide to remove it.

BTW, before flashing the phone, check the s/w version. if it is from t-mobile you might have a v3r_R3443u2. so when you get the phone back post the s/w and bootloader info here.

[biyahero]

yeh, i get the missing pics too. ist ok tho cuz you pretty much get the idea from the rest of the guide. i dont believe it will be necessary to remove the keypad. the most you'll probably want to do is disassemble the bottom portion of the phone. for the keypad, the metal cover should keep the keypad in place if you decide to remove it.

BTW, before flashing the phone, check the s/w version. if it is from t-mobile you might have a v3r_R3443u2. so when you get the phone back post the s/w and bootloader info here.

Thanks zedbra,

Yes I think I get it good enough from the rest of the guide. I got a T5 and T6 yesterday and a "tweezers" at Sears tool department... although it isn't as much like the one in the guide as I had hoped.

I hope that I won't have to remove the keypad... I was kind of thinking that maybe Coke got under the keypad and dried and was making like a resistance was why seemingly more power was needed to turn it on, but if the keys are simply mechanical switches and not electrical in nature maybe that couldn't be so. Hopefully I won't have to remove that.

Anyway once I get the phone I will post what firmware it has.

It is possible that the "Service Center" in Manila did update it with the latest Philippine firmware. I didn't get to talk with the technician myself and the person on the phone was incoherent other than the fact that it still doesn't turn on. I know they tried to "fix" it by flashing it, so probably it is flashed with that. In any case I know it is not the T-Mobile firmware because when I first got the phone years ago I got the unlock code from T-Mobile and after unlocking it I took it to a different Motorola Service Center in Manila (one that no longer exists) and they flashed it with the then current Philippine V3 firmware to make it work better there where it was/is being used.

[biyahero]

yeh, i get the missing pics too. ist ok tho cuz you pretty much get the idea from the rest of the guide. i dont believe it will be necessary to remove the keypad. the most you'll probably want to do is disassemble the bottom portion of the phone. for the keypad, the metal cover should keep the keypad in place if you decide to remove it.

BTW, before flashing the phone, check the s/w version. if it is from t-mobile you might have a v3r_R3443u2. so when you get the phone back post the s/w and bootloader info here.

OK I got the phone back now and the problem turns out to be not that exactly it can't turn on, but either that the battery drains dead super fast, or it is not charging fully when it says "Charge Complete".

At first I thought that maybe the original Motorola battery had got liquid in it and had been damaged, so I put back in the fake Motorola Chinese made battery that I had bought when I was first trouble shooting it last month, and actually with a fully charged battery (or at least when the message "Charge Complete" appears... whether it is really fully charged or not.... it does turn on and seems to operate normally for a short time like 10 minutes.

I reset the time and date and made a call on it, and everything was OK. However after about 10 minutes of operation it suddenly turns off, and then when I plug it back into the charger the battery status is all red and so right now I am going to let it charge for 24 hours like you said and see what happens after that.

When you say the round sticker under the battery that should be white. There is a red round area in the center (from left to right) in the lower part of the battery compartment backing that might be what you mean but it doesn't really seem like a sticker.

What the "technician" put on the Job Order is this... to see if it makes sense to you:

Complaint: "Can't continue power on ok for data lost"... Huh??
"for quotation of part as per client said unit already phil firmware w/scratches on cosmetics w/o ntc seal" (the last part means if the phone was sold in the Philippines it would have a seal from the NTC or National Telecommunications Commission... the equivalent of the FCC in the US)

"under t-mobile red active indicator" ... I guess that means the red thing I am talking about... they are calling it the "active indicator"

"missing screw cap"

Then it says "Repair Done"
CHECKBOARD/CLEAN AND ADJUST CONTACTS/REPROGRAMMED PASSED BUT STILL INT CAN'T POWER ON PULLOUT DUE TO HARDWARE PROBLEM"

Now the phone has the following firmware and bootloader:

Bootloader 08.26
SW Version
R374_G_0E.42.1
0R_A

If you think it would be helpful I could put it back in bootloader mode and leave it on until it turns off and then charge it again for 24 hours.

Are parts available for this thing? If I end up taking it apart and don't see any obvious burned out or corroded components is there some sort of test program what would isolate the hardware problem?

Thanks again for your advice and help zedbra!

[zedbra]

the easiest way to diagnose whether the problem exists in the mobo, or another area of the phone would be to connect the bottom portion of the phone(mobo, antenna, computer area) to another working v3(must be same model). if the battery still drains quickly, then it is definatley in the mobo. i'm betting that it is... something must have shorted out. i have a v3r with a similar problem. mine works all day no problem, but if i leave the phone off with battery in it drains in a few hours.
you can buy all sorts of parts for the v3 at www.cnn.cn, but unfortunately, the computer is the whole phone!! which means the only way to get another is to purchase a whole phone. all other parts can be bought separately... housing, LCD, battery terminals, sim connector, etc.

i cant say for certain, but it sounds like the phone is really broke, maybe you know an electronics tech who can test the mobo for any shorts or bad circuits.

see if you can swap bottoms with another v3(r374) if this corrects the issue, then it is simply a bad flex cable. they are about $10 u.s. at cnn.cn
Good luck friend:)

[biyahero]

the easiest way to diagnose whether the problem exists in the mobo, or another area of the phone would be to connect the bottom portion of the phone(mobo, antenna, computer area) to another working v3(must be same model). if the battery still drains quickly, then it is definatley in the mobo. i'm betting that it is... something must have shorted out. i have a v3r with a similar problem. mine works all day no problem, but if i leave the phone off with battery in it drains in a few hours.
you can buy all sorts of parts for the v3 at www.cnn.cn (http://www.cnn.cn), but unfortunately, the computer is the whole phone!! which means the only way to get another is to purchase a whole phone. all other parts can be bought separately... housing, LCD, battery terminals, sim connector, etc.

i cant say for certain, but it sounds like the phone is really broke, maybe you know an electronics tech who can test the mobo for any shorts or bad circuits.

see if you can swap bottoms with another v3(r374) if this corrects the issue, then it is simply a bad flex cable. they are about $10 u.s. at cnn.cn
Good luck friend:)

Thanks. I'll see if I can find another one to try that. It almost seems like the button in the center the up/down/right/left one whatever the proper name for that is... has something to do with it. Of the times I have been using it and it has suddenly shut off I think it may have been when I pressed this button in the up direction. It also seems that maybe it has something to do with the phone being able to sense when the battery is charged or not, because sometimes it says it can't charge the battery, then if I take the battery out and replace it then it can charge, and other times like now it has been charging all night and is still charging, while sometimes it says "Charge Complete" in an hour or two. I was going to put it in bootloader mode and let it run the battery all the way down, but last night it wouldn't do anything unless I hooked up the charger and then it would just want to charge instead of go into bootloader mode. This time when it says Charge Complete I will try putting it in bootloader mode and if I understand correctly it will remain in bootloader mode until the battery is completely dead.. .right?

Meantime I will try to find another one. Maybe on eBay?

When you mention "r374" is that a model/type number or just because the current firmware starts with that .... or is it that the firmware for this model would always start with R374? This firmware does seem to have some features in the phonebook that the old one didn't... like adding multiple phone numbers for the same phonebook entry... or perhaps I just didn't notice how to do it before since I have been more used to Nokias until I got my Zine.

Thanks!

[zedbra]

yep, something definately sounds screwy. you should be able to force bootloader any time. it has nothing to do with the s/w. sometimes the screen remains blank even tho you are in BL mode. the only way to know for sure in these cases is to force bootloader, then plug in data cable with RSDlite running. after about ten or twenty seconds RSD will display "s-Flash Neptune". once this is displayed, click on it and the info will be shown in the window, including your current BL which im guessing is 7.E0

When i mentioned R374, that is the s/w version which also tells you the model v3 you have.

v3 = R374_.....
v3r = R3443u2... and R4515....
v3re = 3442A...
and etc.

you cant swap parts btween different models of v3, even tho they look the same, parts are not compatible. if you are getting parts or testing a v3(R374) then you must use v3(R374) parts.
i hope this clears things up:)

[biyahero]

yep, something definately sounds screwy. you should be able to force bootloader any time. it has nothing to do with the s/w. sometimes the screen remains blank even tho you are in BL mode. the only way to know for sure in these cases is to force bootloader, then plug in data cable with RSDlite running. after about ten or twenty seconds RSD will display "s-Flash Neptune". once this is displayed, click on it and the info will be shown in the window, including your current BL which im guessing is 7.E0

When i mentioned R374, that is the s/w version which also tells you the model v3 you have.

v3 = R374_.....
v3r = R3443u2... and R4515....
v3re = 3442A...
and etc.

you cant swap parts btween different models of v3, even tho they look the same, parts are not compatible. if you are getting parts or testing a v3(R374) then you must use v3(R374) parts.
i hope this clears things up:)

Thanks again. I am going to take it apart now and see if I see anything. Apparently I have... according to the time when it did go into bootloader "Bootloader 08.26"

More after I see what I find inside :)

[zedbra]

nice, well then with 8.26 you should definately see when it is in BL mode.
ahhh yes, i see in an earlier post it states bootloader 8.26

[biyahero]

Well now that I have got it apart, I see that the white sticker you were talking about is inside... the one that is red in the disassembly guide with the arrow saying "Whoops" right?

If that is the case, mine is still white so I guess I don't have liquid damage after all!

The red spot I was seeing is sort of shown in the 4th picture of the guide where the guy is taking out the sim card and you can partially see the red spot I was talking about under his thumb. You can also see this red spot that I was talking about in the picture where he has circled the tabs you have to bend straight up to get the keypad off.

I got it apart as far as removing the hinges. On my phone the alleged T5 screw that holds in the right hinge doesn't seem to be a T5 or T6 but I got it out with a small pliers... however I don't see what he is talking about using a flathead screwdriver to "pop out" the hinge.

Now where he says "Pop off the connector here. This connect the keypad to the mainboard." he means the silver colored one right? It looks to me like the brown one goes to the camera? If this is the case I do see a very slight amount of green corrosion where that silver colored ribbon cable connects to the (Mainboard ?). Is that the mainboard or is the mainboard sandwiched between that small LCD and the larger one on the other side?

Other than that very minute amount of green deposits in the silver ribbon cable socket I don't see any obvious problems. I don't know if it is worthwhile to try to remove the LCD.. whether that would really allow me to see anything worth seeing or not, and likewise I am not sure of the purpose of removing the hinges.

As for the green deposits they're not really on the gold contacts themselves so maybe I could just scrape them out with a sharp toothpick-like instrument ... or I wonder if spray contact cleaner would be OK to use in there or whether that would seem like a liquid and cause more damage?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have!

nice, well then with 8.26 you should definately see when it is in BL mode.
ahhh yes, i see in an earlier post it states bootloader 8.26


I guess they must have put that on there when they flashed it at the "service center", which they said was successful on the work order, so I suppose that firmware version is the latest and greatest Philippine firmware ?? since that is where the service center is.

[donwhi]

hello biyahero,

green stuff huh? It sounds like it got wet unless there is capacitor electrolyte leaking in there. I don't have much faith in the "moisture dot". One of my Razrs went swimming and the dot is still white even though the phone has crapped out. It powers up but the USB only charges, it won't connect. I'm using it for battery discharge. Contact cleaner didn't help my USB port, but it might work on the ribbon connecting to the mainboard if that's the only problem. Use a magnifying glass and look for more. My phone was dried after the event and seemed to work normally for several weeks before the performance began to deteriorate to poor speaker and sound, keypad squawks, and prematurely dead batteries.

[zedbra]

there are several locations where you should see the "white dot" moisture indicators. including under the LCD cover

[biyahero]

there are several locations where you should see the "white dot" moisture indicators. including under the LCD cover

Well I only found one white dot in my unit. Anyway, it has been restored to life! I waited for a week or two after I seemingly fixed it to make sure it will continue to be fixed, and it is still running like new, so I guess it is fixed. Here is what I did, in case it might help someone else:

With the help of the guide you pointed me to, I got it completely apart except I didn't pry out the LCD, and when I got to the hinge I found that although the guide said the screw that locked the hinge in was a T5, or my unit it turned out to be a T4 which I was able to get out with a jeweler's ;pliers since the head protruded enough to get a grip on it, but I never could quite figure out where to pry properly to get the hinge apart and I didn't really see a need to remove the hinge anyway, so I gave up there, eventually found a T4 in a store and put the locking screw back in.

Then since I didn't see anything visibly wrong with this pile of parts, other than the microscopic possible green material inside the socket of the ribbon cable that ... well there are two ribbon cables. In the guide the picture above the legend "Pop off the connector here. This connect the keypad to the mainboard." there is a picture that shows both cables that connect the half of the phone containing the LCD and the other half. The socket where I observed the miniscule amount of green material is in the socket for the ribbon cable ending in a silver colored end on the right of the picture mentioned above.

Anyway I got a lighted magnifying glass and a small pointed object and made sure there were no remains of green particles or anything else in the socket, then blew it out with compressed air. Next I sprayed kind of a liberal amount of electical contact cleaner in all the sockets, on the ends of all the ribbon cables, and on both sides of the motherboard, and pretty much everywhere. Then I let the parts rest for a week to make sure they were completely dry.

I reassembled it, charged it... which took a normal amount of time now instead of only a short period.... actually I think I left if on the charger for like 24 or 36 hours because I forgot about it. Then the big moment... would it turn on? It did!! Not only did it turn on, but it appeared normal in every aspect. Sends texts, calls and receives calls, personalize it... everything. So I used it for a few day... the battery lasted about three days... charged it again. It really seemed normal. The only thing is it was missing one of those rubber dots that covers the screw heads on the front of the LCD, so since I happened to be in the area of the original Motorola Service Center that said it was dead before, I stopped in there to see if I could buy a rubber plug for the screw head and while I was there I noticed that the keypad had some rust on it, and on the way there I had noticed that even though the LCD looked good inside, outside in the sun it appeared to have dust in it. So for $ 10 they installed a new keypad, and there story was that even if they (or if I) removed the housing again and cleaned the larger LCD (I had only wiped off the small LCD ... not removed and cleaned the big side since I was afraid I might crack it prying it out) their experience was that the spots that looked like dust would not go away. I thought maybe they just made that up to sell some extra parts, but for an extra $ 20 they replaced the LCD also, so I let them do it.

Subsequently on the old LCD I see there are some what look like bubbles, so maybe that is why it looked like dust and they were correct that I couldn't have cleaned it off. So now it looks good even in the sun, and works like new!

Thanks zedbra! I would have not been successful in that project without your help! I don't know exactly what I did that fixed it, but it works anyway now :thanks: